(From left, Charles Wall, Rob Moser, Andy Carr, Warren Blanchard. Photo by Amy Randall Photography)

South Carolina has worked hard in recent years to revitalize its manufacturing base, in the wake of changes in the textile industry, and it has come back strong. Automobiles and aircraft are just part of the boom in manufacturing in the Palmetto State.

Integrated Media Publishing hosted a roundtable discussion with four leaders in the world of manufacturing on July 15, 2024. 

Here are excerpts from that conversation, edited for brevity and clarity. 

The participants were:

Andy Carr, president and CEO of the South Carolina Manufacturing Extension Partnership

Charles Wall, president of S.C. Steel

Warren Blanchard, senior vice president, manufacturing practice leader, McGriff Insurance

Rob Moser, senior investment manager, SC Launch, South Carolina Research Authority

Integrated Media Publishing Editor David Dykes moderated the discussion.

Question: Let me start by just giving a review of where we are and what we hope to talk about this morning. From premium automobiles and appliances to boats and aircraft, each time a finished product rolls off an assembly line in this state, it helps solidify South Carolina's reputation as an ideal location for advanced manufacturing. Once focused on textile mill and apparel jobs, the Palmetto State now boasts a diversified industry of manufacturers, including automotive manufacturing. We've become a true leader in advanced manufacturing and one of the world's top producers of complex products. The state's manufacturing industry is growing at a record pace that shows few signs of slowing, from headquarters to expanded advanced manufacturing operations. And statistics show us that over the last 10 years, South Carolina has averaged manufacturing employment growth of more than 17 percent, now leading the nation in export sales of tires and passenger vehicles. Let me just start by asking a general question. What's your opinion on the state of manufacturing in South Carolina? Rob, you want to start?

Rob Moser: I think manufacturing in South Carolina is strong and growing stronger every day. From our perspective, we work with both larger industry partners as well as new industry startups, as well as companies coming into the state. We just see dynamic growth and partnership happening throughout the state.

Andy Carr: I would say very, very robust. I think we are viewed as a manufacturing powerhouse. Many, many years of work from the governor, legislators, our Department of Commerce, and that focus on recruiting and expanding advanced manufacturing, I think it's really, really paid off. You can see it, the amount of new facilities that keep coming into South Carolina, and then the expansion of the existing ones. So very, very much a powerhouse. Yeah, there's still challenges, workforce, electricity, grid, capacity, and things like that. But I think we're navigating them well, and particularly the transition to electric vehicles. You've seen all those announcements recently of the battery plants and even the battery recycling plant. So, I think we're in good shape, well poised for the future.

Charles Wall: My grandfather was superintendent of a textile mill. You mentioned our start in textiles. From that point, we’ve grown and transitioned into new materials. We saw Michelin move here and expand their presence in the '80s. And then in the early '90s, BMW came along with a host of suppliers. And for our steel fabrication business, it’s been continuous growth. Our business was started in 1952, and we’ve seen nothing but an upward trend.

There was a little bit of a step back during 2009, 2010, but that was very short-lived. And what we've seen is that both the business-friendly government environment as well as a plentiful and skilled workforce has attracted quite a number of people. We may see those two things coming into equilibrium. The supply and demand of skilled labor is a careful balance that we have to watch as we move forward.

Warren Blanchard: Our business is largely a reflection of the health of our clients. Our clients are doing well, and we're doing well. I've worked in the manufacturing space for 32 years with manufacturers, mainly in the Upstate, but some in Charleston and Georgia and North Carolina as well. I would agree with these gentlemen that it's pretty strong. I would probably say it's never been better. I was a little worried for about 30 days in 2020 when most of my clients laid off half their workforce and then came back stronger than ever. I think most of my clients would say, with few exceptions, that 2022 and maybe even 2023 were our best years financially ever, particularly with bottom-line numbers. I think we're seeing somewhat of a return to reversion to the mean, maybe, on performances. Textiles is still in really bad shape. A lot of textile companies got caught with excess inventories trying to keep up with demand. All of a sudden, demand slowed down post-Covid, and they were caught holding a lot of inventory they're still trying to work off of. But other clients are still booming. But I would say it's probably skewed more towards the good than the bad, with the exceptions being in certain spaces, particularly textiles.

Q. Again, let me throw this up for discussion. S.C. Futuremakers and the South Carolina Manufacturers Alliance have estimated that among 127 specific manufacturing occupations examined, those likely to be in the highest demand over the next decade are also the ones most likely to require some form of post-secondary education. Are there enough apprenticeship programs and other programs to help meet the need and reach students early? Charles, you want to start?

Wall: We've been fortunate to attract the talent that we need to S.C. Steel. We attribute that to having a culture that people enjoy being a part of. Some of that involves the way that we relate to each other. We're like a family. We have created alliances with everyone from Bonds Career Center, who trains a lot of quality welders, to Greenville Tech, which has created some excellent graduates in construction science for project management and other occupations we have at S.C. Steel. But we want to see the future well-served, and we're pivoting now to more automation. Some of the questions that you ask at the onset point to that. The skill set that we looked for 20 years ago is not the same skill set that we're looking for now. We have to work with the career centers and technical education system to continually realign the training that they're doing to meet the needs that we have inside of our organization.

Q. Andy, your thoughts?

Carr: I think one of the things we enjoy here is a fantastic apprenticeship program, Apprenticeship Carolina, which is part of the state technical college system. It is one of the leading ones in the nation, very, very highly regarded. Again, fantastic technical college system here in South Carolina, and I think that's a large part of how we're able to attract manufacturers and encourage manufacturers to expand. From my perspective, it's one of those things I don't think they're as well-known as they should be among manufacturers, particularly small and medium-sized ones. It's a two-way street. There's a responsibility for the manufacturers to get out there and understand what apprenticeships are, how they work, and what they have to offer. It's a key element. … Is it the place that you'd want your spouse to work, your children to work? Is it a family environment? Do they look after their people? And a large part of that is when you attract people is to be able to show them what a career plan looks like, and the training and the development opportunities. I think apprenticeships are a fantastic way to do that.

Moser: I'll just add to Andy's comment about the apprenticeship program we have across our 16 technical colleges. It's nationally renowned. It also extends down into juniors and seniors in high school as well, providing training opportunity and industry apprenticeship opportunity down into high school that follows them into our technical schools.

Q. Warren, are your clients telling you that there are enough programs to reach students early, or is that a concern for them?

Blanchard: Just backing up a little bit, I think the labor situation in general seems to have tempered a little bit. They don't seem to be having as much trouble with the churn of people leaving and going down the street for an extra nickel an hour or whatever, which we were seeing a lot of that post-Covid or even during Covid. Haven't heard any complaints necessarily about lack of training. A lot of people are training their own. I was in a client's facility last week, and he was explaining to me some type of exotic welding process they were going through. And I said, Did you send this kid to some tech school? He said, No, they don't teach this. We're the only place in the Southeast that does this. We have to train them to do this this way. And it's a Department of Defense type project they're working on. It requires a specific metal and a specific welding technique. That's something where they're just passing it down to the next guy internally. But I haven't heard of any complaints about a lack of training, so that's good.

Q. Let me follow up on the point you made. The importance of robotics and the new skill sets employees should be seeking, obviously with automation, artificial intelligence, the skill set needs, I don't want to say are changing necessarily, but they're expanding. What about robotics? What about skill sets? You touched on that a little bit.

Blanchard: I'm seeing some of that more and more every day with clients, from autonomous-type vehicles taking things through a warehouse to some type of cobot system where a robot and a human are interacting to mainly be safer and more efficient. Robots can really help out do things that are dangerous to people. And that's great. If we can take a human out of harm's way and do it safer with a robot or a machine or an automation solution, that's great. But I had one client, gosh, it's been over a year ago, that did invest in a project because he couldn't find people. And he said not finding people was the catalyst for doing this analysis. In the end, this is a better solution for my business. I'll be more productive using this automation solution. I don't have to worry about finding a dozen people to do this job. So, the lack of labor did force him in a direction he would not have gone had there not been a problem. I think we're seeing some things like that pop up, too, where there might be a labor vacuum here or there, causing business leaders to look at automation and robotics in a different way.

Q. Charles, what about from your perspective? Automation, certainly, we talked about efficiency and enhancements. A lot of people worry that they're going to lose their jobs to automation and robotics. What's your take on that?

Wall: I was just thinking back through the history of using robotics in S.C. Steel. We put in our first robot in 2011, and our employment has grown continuously as we've added robots. We now have four. So, I haven't seen the displacement of the workforce. And as Ron was commenting, I was just thinking about how because we can make more complex things with robotics, primarily for us, cutting equipment in the cobot arrangement, the welding as he described, we can produce more and we can make things with greater complexity. … We're doing a tower for Unity Park right now that is a combination. It's a very complex tower. It's going to be a beautiful focal center point for the park, but it is very much dependent upon some complex cutting and fitting. And so, the parts were cut by robotic equipment to very precise dimensions. However, it was built by a group of artisans in our plant who assembled those parts and checked with point cloud measurement to make sure everything was in the right position (and) alignment.

But it took physical skills and geometric proficiency to take all those robotic parts and put them into an assembly that is going to create this tower. So, what we have seen from the addition of robotics is it simply increases our throughput. So, we're able to produce more. And it also creates a greater demand for the downstream activities. We do some welding through cobot welding, but the fitting and the painting and the loading are all still primarily manual activities. And the more parts we can make through robots, the more pieces there are for all the downstream activities. So, our employment has grown basically over 50 percent since we started adding robots to our processes.

Q. Andy, what’s your take?

Carr: I think to echo what Warren and Charles said there, hugely important. A big driver for the small and medium-sized guys, our clients, the last few years was the availability of labor. Just could not find the labor. A lot of times when they did, it wasn't particularly stable labor either. That drove it. What we're starting to see now as it becomes more universal and a little bit more affordable is not only a competitive issue, driving efficiencies and productivity and throughput and things like that, but you're starting to see people look at what we call the 3Ds: the dull, the dirty, and the dangerous. How can we eliminate those jobs? And again, just make it a better work environment for all. So very much starting to see that, starting to see it with those smaller manufacturers coming down there. I always go back to my little caution with that thing is, don't get carried away and always make sure you know the business case. What problem are you trying to solve with the automation? … It's worth looking at, definitely. And the other thing is the whole thing with robotics, again, more affordable, but they're affordable not just in South Carolina, across this country and globally, and many, many other manufacturers are making use of them. So, again, competitive in this issue. Again, an opportunity to make a better, safer, cleaner work environment, too.

Q. Rob, how do you think South Carolina is stacking up against neighboring states and maybe others in the Southeast?

Moser: From our perspective, we see this as a strength for South Carolina. I think BMW is the largest robotic user in the Southeast. I think across the board that we've been able to take this initiative and really utilize it well throughout the state, specifically here in the Upstate.

Q. What needs to be done to reach more students? We've talked about South Carolina's graduation rate in high school is not as strong as it needs to be. The technical programs have been enhanced and are helping many students. But what's the No. 1 thing you think is lacking to guarantee a plentiful and prosperous workforce? Rob, I'll start back with you.

Moser: Looking back at my three children coming up through middle school and high school, the earliest that we can reach students to make them aware of potential careers that not only provide gainful employment, but can be interesting, entertaining, and allow them to utilize natural skills that they may possess. So, the earlier that we can engage and show interest within students and show them possibility, I think the greater opportunity we have to retain those students, keep them going through high school, graduation rate, and into industry. Some studies I've seen show that middle school is the ideal engagement period, or that's when you lose, specifically, young men. You lose their interest throughout schooling. And so, an opportunity to engage them early on in that period to really show them a future and an opportunity beyond what they may know.

Q. Andy, you want to expand?

Carr: I agree with Robert. I think it's all about reaching back and opening your doors as a manufacturer. There are complex environments that can be dangerous environments. There's insurance implications. But being integrated into part of the community, I think, is huge. They're very complicated, the key to things, even the people that work in them sometimes don't quite understand them. But if you're somebody that passes by once a week on a frontage road, you have no idea what the products are or what the jobs are or the technologies that are used. For me, the outreach, I think a fantastic example here is ZF (Transmissions) in Gray Court in terms of what they've done with the school district, particularly Laurens County, to have kids come in and see what's made there, how it's made. But more importantly, here are the opportunities. Yes, part of it is the reputation overcome of manufacturing, that it's dull and it's dirty and it's dangerous. But technology has moved on, so has manufacturing. I think it's a PR thing. It's an outreach thing. It's making sure people understand, and not just the students, but also the parents.

… Manufacturing wages are typically 30 percent higher than the rest of the economy. I always point to the nice cars and trucks that are typically in those parking lots as well. It's like, that's because people are earning good money. Then also the benefits. The benefits tend to be much, much better than other areas. Very much for me, it's a PR, it's a publicity, it's an outreach thing. Go out there and promote your business. We've seen over the years, many, many manufacturers spend a fortune on marketing their products and services. And I think today, the other thing you got to do is market yourself to the workforce in the community. Why, again, your spouse, your partner, your child, your next door neighbor, your friend should come and work here.

Q. Charles, when you see a headline that talks about U.S. Steel being for sale and for the underlying reasons for that, does that tell you anything that you can extrapolate for your business, or is there a trend developing in terms of bigger, smaller steel operations?

Wall:  It's interesting. The steel mills – and U.S. Steel being heavily invested there – that did not modernize to move to micro mills or mini mills when that opportunity was available, they found themselves left behind for lack of investing in the next generation of manufacturing. So, U.S. Steel  suffered as a result of that. However, the workforce was certainly there. They had the element that we were just asking about, but they didn't invest in the right technology. So, they left themselves in a not-competitive position. They’re also a victim of some import practices that put them at a disadvantage. But I think the steel industry is still strong. It doesn't concern me. I hope that able to retain that asset owned by American investors. But for strategic reasons for our national security, I'd like to see steel be a domestic product forever. Whenever we go to war, that would be a critical thing to have under our control.

But I don't have a concern because there are many people who have made the investment in mini mills as opposed to blast furnaces. Nucor is at the top of that list. Steel Dynamics has done the same, as has Gerdau. Those are our three key suppliers now. We do receive some plate that comes from U.S. Steel, but primarily the long products that we manufacture are available to us from domestic sources, and I trust that our government will protect that for the long term for strategic reasons.

Q. Warren, what are your clients telling you, particularly when you look at Research Triangle Park in North Carolina and some others where research in a variety of fields has been going on for a long time? Does South Carolina have a lot of ground to make up in terms of research and development, or are we doing OK?

Blanchard: I don't think we have a shortage of smart people here. My son is a mechanical engineer who went to Clemson, and he had job offers from all over the country because of the credibility of that program. So, I think we're producing smart kids from Clemson, Georgia Tech, Research Triangle area. He looked at all the big engineering schools and decided he wanted to be a Clemson Tiger. I'm not really hearing a lot of comments about a shortage of brainpower or R&D. A lot of my clients are probably building to someone else's spec. It's a BMW supplier that's getting a spec that's making a product, so they're not really doing the R&D. I don't really know that I'm super qualified to answer … but a lot of my clients have engineers on-site to do tweaks, but as far as designing a product ground up, I don't have a lot of those clients.

Q. Let me throw a broad question to each of you. In today's world, manufacturers are under increased pressure in many ways. You've mentioned overseas competitors, government mandates, litigation threats, employee issues, and so much more. As a result, risk management issues are becoming increasingly complex at a time when managing your business is more challenging than ever. What new strategies are needed to relieve those burdens, address data management and cyber issues? And is AI one of the new technologies that could help states' manufacturers? Warren, I'm going to start with you.

Blanchard: I think the biggest lesson from Covid is supply chain risk. And talking about keeping stuff domestic and making sure we've got suppliers, there is some element of on-shoring or near-shoring occurring, where we're bringing product in from Asia at least to Mexico or our hemisphere because of the supply chain issues. We've seen that magnified with ocean cargo issues, coming through the Panama Canal, that's been tough because they hadn't had enough water. And then with the terrorist activities in the Suez Canal has caused major issues with stuff coming from that side of the world. I think supply chain is probably the biggest risk trying to solve that. But then cyber AI, all of this has created a great opportunity for manufacturing companies. When you have these cobots and connected machines, they're connected to the internet. So that's a vulnerability. Manufacturing remains the top industry that's a victim of cyber ransom events. Manufacturers typically don't have a lot of credit cards. … They don't have the stuff that these bad guys want to steal. What they do have is an operation that is extremely costly when it shuts down.

There's third-party implications. If you're a supplier to BMW, and you can't supply parts when they need it, you're in big trouble. There's serious fines and implications to that. So, manufacturers are getting cyber ransoms at all-time highs. It's continuing to be an issue. The demands are lower because they're looking for more quick hits, money that's easy to obtain, but it's a problem and a nuisance. So that's an issue. Everything's connected. So not only can you lock down the operating systems, you can lock down specific machines and cause specific machines to malfunction and actually produce parts that are out of spec. These cyber guys, they're bad guys, they think like bad guys.

Q. But they're pretty good.

Blanchard: They're great. And good guys don't think that way because we're honest people. So, it's tough to outthink these guys. Anything AI-related, I would be sure it's proven technology. We've seen some issues with cars that have not been successful and caused issues. … I have a 2023 car that's supposed to stop when something runs out in front of you, and it has stopped a few times for no reason. I turned that feature off because I want to drive the vehicle, but I have to turn it off every time I get in the car. I just want to be sure that if you're using AI or any cutting-edge technology, prove it out. Be sure that it is what it is because sometimes the people that are developing that are at such a fast pace to get it out to market that it might have some bugs in it.

Q. Charles, what do you think?

Wall: We are really thankful for AI because it's created a huge demand for data centers, and guess what they build them with? A lot of good old structural steel. We're seeing several major brands trying to make a land grab for having a capacity to support … a really exponentially growing demand for the processing services. So, we're doing data centers, fabricated right here in Greenville, that go to places like Ohio, Virginia, Texas. We’re really thankful for it from a business-demand standpoint. However, I share the same concerns that Warren was sharing. We've actually stepped up our cyber defense. .. We work with a company who provides testing software, and it sends testing emails to your employees to see if they would click on an unsafe link without really identifying it. Some are pretty clever. But as Warren said, criminals get more clever every day. So, some of the things that we're testing for may be the things that are a bit outdated. But it is a concern. … The way I look at it is I respect those who use the most effective tools in front of them. I respect AI-written results, but they're threatening everyone from attorneys to the publishing industry, to those who write the basic documents within a company. I can't imagine what a great HR manual AI could write if I just handed it to my current manual and gave it a few references to legal compliance that I'd like to qualify for. So, I'm excited about it. I do see some threats there. But  they're never perfect, right? And then your connection to the internet goes down, or something that the software didn't anticipate occurs that needs human intervention, you're doing the same thing that Warren did with his car, you're turning it off.

I share that same opinion that AI is often too limiting. It can't interject yet the creativity that I would expect from a human response. So, if you told me that air traffic control was going to be AI-driven soon, I would be concerned about that because of the things I've experienced in my car.

Q. Andy, what about the risk management environment these days?

Carr: I think it's language that's more part of the small, medium-sized manufacturer's lexicon than it used to be, which is a great thing. From my perspective, it's always encouraging people to be proactive about it, in particular, the cyber thing. Don't wait until afterwards. You need to get on the front foot here. For me, it always comes back to strategic planning for a company, to sit down and look at these issues and then ask the tough questions of, what does this mean for our organization? And not just at the top level, but all the way through. I think that's important. I always recommend people lean on corporate resources or local resources because as manufacturers, with over what, 11-, 1200 small and medium-sized ones in the Upstate alone, you're not the only person facing these issues. So, reach out. Maybe not to competitors, but reach out to some of the other ones. Ask the questions. What resources are they deploying? How are they tackling this one? So again, the importance of benchmarking the network is huge for me.

And then, pay attention. People like our Department of Commerce, Department of Employment and Workforce, SMEP, SCRA, we're here to serve, and we're funded in one way or another by public money. And there's a lot of resources, a lot of grants, and a lot of programs there. So, it's like, how can you help me with that? Is there anything out there that helps a small, medium-sized manufacturer with these issues? AI – we can't go anywhere without hearing about it for the last five years. A fortunate thing that we've seen, we've actually been able to work with SCRA and a couple of AI providers who are based here in South Carolina, which is fantastic. To actually know there's resources available locally. We don't have to go to Silicon Valley or those places. It's been great to see it. Again, it gets cheaper, it gets more democratized. What we're starting to see with that is the complex problems around about equipment uptime. A lot of work in the early days on that, a lot in sorting through large data sets related to quality and improving quality. But what we're now starting to see is that move into things like HR.

How can I improve my marketing efforts? How can I improve my HR efforts by using artificial intelligence? … Conservative Andy there is always, what's the business case, and what's the problem you're trying to solve? Because advanced manufacturing technology, there's eight or nine different pillars. AI is just one of them. There might be a better solution that lies in one of those other pillars. Do your research. Talk to your peers, benchmark and network, and then always come back to the business case.

Q. Rob, what’s the biggest impediment that you found of companies not wanting to reach out for the kinds of expertise and advice that Andy mentioned? You have so many programs that are beneficial, that are well-organized, but you aren't reaching everyone who needs to be reached. Why is that?

Moser: The biggest challenge is awareness. While we think that we are visible, we're everywhere, we still put a huge effort into marketing being available and socially out there in the marketplace so that there is awareness of the opportunities we have. As you mentioned, we have tremendous programs that can help existing industry, help industry looking to relocate into the state. But it's just the awareness and ensuring that we're constantly communicating, constantly being top of mind.

Q. What's South Carolina’s biggest challenge in competing with other states that have strong manufacturing operations?

Moser: We've talked about automation. We've talked about workforce. I think one of our challenges now, our largest challenge is we've talked a little bit about that research concentration within the state. When you look at other states within the Southeast, specifically, you can name Research Triangle Park as being a great example of where there is concentration of research. We have tremendous research universities across the state that produce wonderful students. Unfortunately, a lot of those students leave the state for opportunities elsewhere. So, making sure that there are opportunities for them to stay within the state, that we're evangelizing those opportunities so that we can keep that research talent focused here in generating value for South Carolina.

Q. And finally, Warren, let me start with you. If you could go back and do one thing differently to enhance manufacturing at South Carolina, what would that be?

Blanchard: An underlying tone that we just experienced here today is communication, awareness. Does a 12-year-old kid know they can make $100,000 as a welder? That's probably not being talked about at home. Those kids need to know that. They need to know that there's a craft out there that they can be proud of. It's not just dirty, dull, and dangerous. Some of the stuff is an art form. ... I think there's an awareness there that manufacturing is cool. The SCMA has a campaign every year. What's the coolest thing made in South Carolina? I think this year it was the Honda side-by-side. Last year, it was the Lockheed fighter jet. There's a lot of organizations trying to make manufacturing cool, and I wish we'd started that sooner. When we were all going through, it was, you got to go to college, you got to be a doctor or a lawyer or an accountant. … We can't all be doctors and lawyers and accountants. Teaching this next generation, there are some really cool things they can do and make a good living doing it.

Wall: I look back to the foundation that I stand on. I stand on the shoulders of my father and my grandfather, they were both in textiles. This entire generation stands on the shoulders of folks who have defended our freedom in past wars. That developed a lot of character, competence, and commitment. The example that we saw in the Greatest Generation and even their kids, it was a natural respect for authority, a work ethic, a drive to achieve and deliver value that was part of that character, the fabric that made South Carolina such a great place to locate a business. We're going to have to continue to deliver that even in a new environment if we're going to continue to grow and attract the workforce that can be effective as the current generation has been. As I look at the next generation, I look at things like the distractions that they face, that would draw them away. Some of them who could be that very successful welder … get drawn into things that put them into a path that doesn't allow them to achieve all that they’re capable of in their careers.

I make an investment in trying to educate younger people about, how do you develop that character, competence, and commitment. Character really starts in the early stages before they even get to middle school and high school in the education system. It's amazing how many employees that we end up pursuing very aggressively have strong parents and a huge respect for their parents. They respect for other authorities in their lives, and as a result of it, they achieve more. They're capable of learning more because of their discipline and respect for those who are teaching.

If I could do anything to enhance manufacturing in South Carolina, I would do anything that I can to perpetuate the character, competence, and commitment of the work force, through just the influences they have and the opportunities they have to experience the reward from being one who walks with integrity, a fundamental pillar of character. … If you go all the way back to the textile baseball leagues, they were heavily recruited employees for the purpose of playing on the diamond. And that competitiveness that they demonstrated on the field and that respect for the team organizer, the coach, played out in the textile factories was a very successful recipe. I think we, in South Carolina, have to do something to protect our moral fabric and our character and competence and commitment that comes from that moral fabric.

Carr: I think if I had that magic wand, I would go back to the '80s and '90s and the rampant outsourcing and offshoring of manufacturing.

The people would have taken a little bit more long-term vision rather than the quarter's next profits or the share price and actually look at what it's doing to the manufacturing fabric of the country, the national security that Charles talked about earlier. That they’d actually taken time to look at the total cost of ownership. Yeah, that part might be 25 cents cheaper, but for the time you navigate the Suez Canal and everything like that, and you wait eight or 10 weeks on it coming from India or China, you're not saving any money at all. All you've done is weaken manufacturing in the U.S. and weaken your community. If  I had that magic wand, it would be education around the long term impacts of offshoring.

Q. Rob, wrap us up with your thoughts on what one thing should have been done differently?

Moser: I echo some of the comments prior. I grew up and worked my way in high school and college in the textile industry, and it was repetitive. It was dirty. It was hot. That's not the manufacturing world of today. The manufacturing world is very different than that now. It requires skill sets. It requires dedication. It requires devotion to continuous learning. The ability to go back and keep that perception of manufacturing. Back in the '60s and '70s, if you worked for a manufacturing company, you were proud of that company. It was part of your community. There was longevity there. We don't see that as much today, but it can come back. And I think we do see it a little bit in the Upstate in the industries that we have here. We have very large manufacturing companies that have dedicated extended periods here. You look at the BMWs, the Michelins that have been here for decades, the number of employees that they've employed throughout the years, the commitment they've made to the community to be able to get back to that type of environment where we have a workforce that takes pride in working for a manufacturing company, takes pride to see that product either roll through the parking lot or be installed with another company.

A company that takes pride in their workforce and wants to continue to invest and make sure that there's long-term opportunities here, whether it's automating, whether it's taking a long-term look at the full supply chain and the true cost of manufacturing and cost of ownership. Just to be able to almost go back in time … and see that type of community engagement between workforce as well as employer.

Q. I want to thank you again for your time this morning and for your observations. I want to thank Warren and McGriff Insurance for your sponsorship. I appreciate the discussion.